Passing or should I say being passed

Discussion in 'Information For New Racers' started by cMac, Jan 9, 2011.

  1. cMac

    cMac Conservatively Libral

    Im goin to start racing this year. I plan on racing in all of the CCS and wera events at Summit and NJ. What are the real world rules of being passed. Im a naturally competative person. I found myself making passes that others have called "aggressive" during trackdays. I even tried to stuff my instructor into turn five 3 times during my mock race. Even though I never got past him, This was the most fun i ever had on a bike. This is the reason Im getting into racing. During trackdays Im in the front pack of the Advanced group. The real racers always come buy me without effort. This makes me wonder what the real world etiquette for be passed/ lapped. The instructors say its the job of one passing to get around safely but Ive seen many races on TV and as a cornerworker where the guy being held up gets pissed at the slower rider. Im going to start my first race or two from the back of the grid. I can see a situation where im holding up one of the fast guys and influencing the results. I dont want to be a D*CK to those out there but when I ride I go into the competitve zone.Which train of thought is whats practiced on the track.

  2. Mustang

    Mustang TonysTrackDays Instructor

    It is the responsibility of the passer to pass safely. It's the "passee's" responsibility to react predictably to being passed (meaning, don't freak out and turn into the passer, etc).

    Who called your passes aggressive? Was it the instructor(s), or other track day riders? Why did they feel your passes were aggressive?
  3. Rain Director

    Rain Director Old guy

    Being passed? Hold your line through the corner. The faster guy has already figure out how to get past you as long as you do that. Don't get freaked when he/she/they buzz past.
  4. cMac

    cMac Conservatively Libral

    A few friends said i was aggressive. During the class, the instructor i was trying to pass said I "definitely have the mindset for racing". During trackdays I did not pass dangerously but I if there was an opening that I felt I could get through without contact i went for it. If I needed. If I came up on a slower rider i'de measure him/ her up and pass where I felt i could make the pass. Usually right before the pass, Ide be slightly of the persons rear tire to make the pas as quick and safe as possible. In the advanced group i figured riders should be able to control their bike enough to not freak out from a close pass. I wouldn't saw anyone's front off but some were close passes.
  5. Dits

    Dits Will shit in your fort.

    Every time I hear someone say something about getting "held up", I call BS on it. You didn't get "held up" you had an inability to get around someone slower.

    Once again, it's the responsibility of the rider doing the passing to do it safely. It's the responsibility of the person getting passed to hold their line.

    Think about it this way, if it was the job of the slower rider to move over and not "hold up" the faster rider, how are you going to do that? Do you need to move left or right? Is the faster guy gonna pass you on the left or right? How can you tell? Your chances of having a meet up with the other rider are then about 50/50.
  6. :stupid:

    The best thing anybody can do is race their race. There are no Blue flags in WERA (flags displayed to people about to be lapped) so don't worry about what/who is behind you.

    The person about to make the pass saw you WAY before you saw them and they have already judged your speed, predicted your line and have a plan for passing you. If you look back, change lines, slow down or do anything different than just running your race, you could cause a wreck.

    Keep your head forward and worry about what is going on ahead of you.
  7. Karl_L

    Karl_L Well-Known Member

    I've only done a few trackdays that were not associated with WERA but I have noticed an unusual pattern. It seemed not uncommon for a rider to check himself up & decline to pass in a corner if they don't feel like they can make the pass stick. You don't see much of that in racer practice, let alone in a race.
  8. got40

    got40 On hiatus...


    I think that is a mindset difference. Track days aren't superpole so if you need to wait a corner or two so you can make sure you don't spook anyone, then I tend to err on the side of caution, even in advanced. Not so racing. Aggressive passes are part of the deal.

    Then again, if I think the slower rider is intentionally trying to keep me behind him, the kid gloves come off and the racer comes back out and I get by. There's no need for that, if they try to shut the door in my face they get stuffed. Welcome to advanced.
  9. got40

    got40 On hiatus...

    I agree with you to a point, kinda depending on how much faster you are. Sometimes it can only be 0.3s or 0.2s faster than someone, and making the pass stick is a tough proposition, especially since they could actually be faster than you in some parts of the track.

    I guess you just have to force your way by or wait for them to make a mistake.
  10. Vinny337

    Vinny337 Vin is in...Beastmode!

    +1 Think of it as a drive by shooting, they person getting passed never seen it coming....I know it's a sick analogy.
  11. speedluvn

    speedluvn Man card Issuer

    I once heard in a discussion that "passing should be like murder :eek:, either you're gonna do it or not. Don't hesitate." :tut:

    That clarified things for me ;)
  12. fastfreddie

    fastfreddie Midnight Oil Garage

    trackdays have passing rules.
    for the most part, racing doesn't...swapping paint is acceptable.
    what is frowned upon tho' is rough riding. you can't be beatin' everybody up when you pass 'em.

    other riders to be overtaken can be viewed as moving components of the track.
    you are there to beat the track, not the other riders.
    if you win, you did a better job dealing with the track than the rest of the grid.
  13. LWGP

    LWGP Well-Known Member

    not really. making contact with other bikes on a consistent basis is a quick way to be asked to park your bike.
  14. fastfreddie

    fastfreddie Midnight Oil Garage

    the infrequent occurrence of paint swapping is just that, an infrequent occurrence of paint swapping. it happens. it's not illegal.
    scrapin' down the side of everyone you pass in order to swap paint, on the other hand, would be rough riding. not the same.

    perhaps we should define paint swapping. in my book it's not an actual measure of the contact sufficient to move paint from the surface of one machine to the other, rather, it's a momentary contact in the heat of battle. you're not plowin' into anybody, you're not shovin' 'em off the track, you just got really close. REAL close.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2011
  15. jiffyzx6

    jiffyzx6 Well-Known Member

    first time I had an advanced racer pass me at a trackday and swap paint I damn near shit myself lmao I was in the intermediate group scared the hell outa me... for a second... then I went into attack mode and chased his ass down, adrenaline pumping and all. I ran my best lap times that session and ran competitive race times. that day made it 100% clear that I wanted to race and be as good as these guys if not better. he showed me not to be scared and worry where everyone's at just run my race, the faster guys will pass you until you get faster. I had been asking him for advice all day (he was a Dick and blew me off at first) it was pretty cool after that session, he stopped at my pit and congratulated me on not freaking out and keeping up with him. said he wanted to teach me real world racing and apologized for being a Dick lol it worked for me
  16. Vinny337

    Vinny337 Vin is in...Beastmode!

    +1 The first time I rubbed elbows with another rider, I was like wow...we had been going at it all day, eveing talking in the pits how we were going to leave each other in the dust...Fun time for sure
  17. gixxie750

    gixxie750 Well-Known Member

    The main thing i think about passing is neither of us are pro racers and we both don't need to go home hurt over a position. The goal is to go home with your bike and all your body parts in good condition along with your fellow racers.
  18. tomato_racing

    tomato_racing Well-Known Member

    I agree and partially think this is why I struggled to get back on the horse after my last accident... I can't stop thinking 'I have to be able to go to work tomorrow' when riding. Maybe that will pass after a while
  19. fzr400tony

    fzr400tony can't ride


    I've only ever banged elbows with people and had my front tire run over (both in practice). And to be honest, I was too focused on getting into the corner to really care that we had a close call (I was being passed both times). And when I've made aggressive moves, I give a wave and apologize as soon as I down some water.

    I think because trackdays have people start so staggered and because there's a huge spread in speed, you have more problems with people getting labelled as "aggressive."

    I'm sure if you do something truly aggressive, someone is going to let you know about it.
  20. The best thing you can do is go to the track (probably a track day, where it is more relaxed), make sure your tires are good and hot, and then go WFO so nothing else can be on your mind except riding.

    I have been taken out 3 different times. Two of those times were by guys lowsiding as i was passing them on the outside and i got wiped out by their sliding bike. The 2nd time was pretty bad and resulted in a few days in UAB and 6.5hrs worth of surgery to repair my left wrist and right ankle.

    Take a guess at what i did in my very first session back on the track, in both instances.........yep, passed several people on the outside.

    I boxed for 16yrs and played football for 6yrs and carry that mentality over to my racing. You have to be able to put that all of that bullshit behind you and maintain a "warrior's attitude". If not, you will never be the same.

    I can tell you this, if you are scared of crashing, you will never be fast. The faster you go, the closer you get to the limits. If you are planning to go to the track and are having constant thoughts of "i hope i don't wreck", you might as well just stay home. You cannot ride around the track while constantly thinking and focusing on "I hope i don't crash". Not only will you not improve, but you could possibly be a danger to yourself and everyone else.


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